VITARA FULL/STRONG HYBRID 2022

by **Admin** Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:10 pm

Currently on Suzuki Netherlands and Spain websites is the new Vitara Hybrid

Also called Suzuki Vitara Strong Hybrid, the HEV uses a new ‘K15C’ 1.5-litre MPI naturally aspirated petrol engine, a new electric motor, and a new lithium-ion battery pack. The engine produces 75 kW (102 PS) at 6,000 rpm and 138 Nm at 4,400 rpm. The electric motor generates 24.6 kW and 60 Nm using energy stored in a 3.4 kWh (140 V, 24 Ah) lithium-ion battery pack. The combined power of the petrol engine and the electric motor is 85 kW (115 PS).

A 6-speed automatic transmission is standard in the Vitara Full Hybrid, while the Allgrip 4WD system is available as an option. The 2WD configurations deliver a fuel economy of up to 18.9 km/l and the 4WD configurations up to 17.5 km/l. Their CO2 emissions are as low as 121 g/km and 130 g/km, respectively.
The towing capacity of the Vitara Full Hybrid is 1,200 kg, which is 300 kg lower than that of the Vitara Mild Hybrid. Suzuki has placed the traction battery pack in the boot. As a result, the space is down from 362 litres (rear seats up)/642 litres (rear seats down)/1,119 litres (max. volume) to 289 litres (rear seats up)/569 litres (rear seats up)/1,046 litres (max. volume).

by imack Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:00 pm

That's interesting Karl, I didn't know any details of the strong hybrid Vitara other than the fact its due for UK release around March.
So it looks like an updated version of the current Jimny engine. Good to see that there's still an Allgrip version.
I'd imagine the S-Cross will get the strong hybrid set up too.
Iain

by **Admin** Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:46 pm

It is a strange thing they have launched the new S-Cross with only the mild hybrid when they obviously have the full hybrid system ready to roll on NL/ES websites

Also good news it is a Suzuki set up rather than using a Toyota engine/hybrid in a Suzuki body, I have always had my reservations on the Jimny K15 engine but will be interesting how it is in the lighter Vitara after the Boosterjet engines

Karl

by **Admin** Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:07 pm

Looking on Suzuki Poland they have top spec 1.5 Strong Hybrid 4WD 6AGS Elegance Sunroof 131,500 Poland złoty equals 23,875.52 Pound sterling.....I can't see the UK getting these prices?

https://suzuki.pl/auto/samochody/Vitara-Strong-Hybrid

Suzuki NL are at €33750/ £28059

https://www.suzuki.nl/auto/modellen/vitara/

Karl

by imack Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:16 pm

Last time I was at Suzuki I'd heard rumours that the Vitara was going to get a Toyota hybrid engine/drivetrain. I couldn't understand why they'd have gone to that level of expense and development on a car that's coming towards the end of production. At that point I hadn't known that the new
S-Cross was going to continue using the same floor and running gear as the previous model. Glad to see it's a Suzuki engine and hybrid system though rather than Toyota. Looks as if it might be using a pretty conventional auto box where the drive motor is normally sandwiched between the engine and box rather than a Toyota type CVT where the motors are inside the box.
Iain

by STDI Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:21 pm

imack wrote:...using a pretty conventional auto box ...

ASG = Auto Gear Shift is Automated Manual Transmission

by imack Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:27 pm

Just found that myself, AMT box isn't such good news in my opinion, I've never been a fan of AMT type boxes, they had clutch judder problems in the celerio and Ignis. The latest Ignis auto has changed to a CVT which I think is miles better than the old AMT version.
Still, it keeps you busy changing clutches and flywheels!

by crozier Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:41 pm

AMT box? Why go back to technology that others (BMW) left behind years ago ? I get it that you get rid of the torque converter that can sap power, but you add a load of complicated shift gubbins that decreases reliability. Even CVT is better, and that's saying something.

Coupled with the K15C, it looks like an exercise in marginal costings: using old technology that's repaid its development costs. That allows a more competitive price point, taking into account that HEV's are typically more expensive than their ICE counterparts. Personally, I would be happy to change up from my 2019 Vitara to the new S Cross, but I wouldn't touch this 2022 Vitara with a barge pole.

by Hutchy Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:04 pm

my mate has a daft Citroen c4 with a manual auto gubbins box, lost count how many clutches it,s eaten, now the electric control box for the automatic bit has gone, and citroen want 2K to fix more than what the car is worth, should just leave the manual lever in it and be done with it.

by imack Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:34 pm

AGS gearbox and MGU (motor generator unit) is a set up in an arrangement I've not seen before.
MGU is mounted externally to the gearbox and drives via a PTO (power take off) from the opposite end of the gearbox to the engine.
Supposedly this gives a smoother gear change as the MGU 'torque fills' during gear changes and allegedly gives a gear shift similar to a proper auto box.
Battery pack and inverter are combined in one unit and fits into the spare wheel well and lower boot space.

by crozier Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:31 pm

This is what happens when you try to lever an HEV powertrain into an ICE powertrain. It just gets complicated and messy. Better to go back to the drawing board and make a pure HEV/PHEV set up. I'm sure Suzuki are doing just that (or are they resting on their Across laurels?) but I'm not impressed by this interim solution.

I like the idea of the Nissan system Nissan E-Power as an interim between ICE and EV, and it wouldn't take much to make this an AWD powertrain.

by AKC1 Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:54 pm

Yet more to go wrong....Good luck when vehicle goes out of warranty.

by **Admin** Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:11 pm

crozier wrote: (or are they resting on their Across laurels?) but I'm not impressed by this interim solution..

Firstly the only reason for the Across/Swace is to cheat/lower European carbon footprint levels hence no ACross /Swace in non EU governed countries such as Japan/Australia/South Africa/Russia etc (who also still have regular 4 seat jimnys available with no EU restrictions) Toyota allow the re badging of Rav4 and Corrola Hybrid as they in return can re badge Suzuki Baleno/Breeza into Toyotas for markets Toyota has no suitable models for

As for Interim solution the AGS/MGU has been around for 5+ years in Japan so not really a part time gaffer tape and zip tie install, they appear to have it quite well sorted other than a recall in 2018 that has since been rectified

Karl

by TWSaab Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:17 pm

Have to agree, not a good move to that sort of gearbox, the Ford DCT has a terrible reputation too. Might even have been better to have the Toyota drive train as it is tried and tested.
I felt it was a shame they did not do the new S Cross as a plug in hybrid as that will probably be my next move. Similar for the Vitara. Also not good to lose the boot space. Again, it was disappointing that the new S Cross is no bigger (and the hybrid smaller) capacity as the existing. We find the existing S Cross just a little tight going camping and the like (although my wife does take a lot). Maybe they will develop a new floor plan to accommodate both a plug in variation and a little more space in the future.

by AKC1 Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:11 pm

It amazes me that the Government alongside the car industry think everybody has got a spare 28,000 plus pounds spare in their back pockets to buy these things.
The future certainly doesn't look bright for new Automobile sales, which in turn will push up secondhand car prices to silly levels...Disaster ahead.

by TWSaab Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:22 pm

The majority of people I know buying new cars (apart from company cars) buy on PCP now, changing their car every 3 years. It seems that's a main source for second hand cars, along with the Motability scheme. I have never bought a brand new car and doubt I ever will now, but keep an eye to new cars coming out for a replacement in years to come.

by crozier Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:10 pm

TWSaab wrote:The majority of people I know buying new cars (apart from company cars) buy on PCP now, changing their car every 3 years.

True, but PCP deals are now eating themselves. Second hand car prices are up over 25% on a year ago and brand new cars are typically on a 4-6 month delivery. Used to be you could drive into a showroom on the day your PCP ended, use the residual to put a first payment on a new car, sign a new PCP and drive out in a brand new car. Not anymore! Your choice now is paying off the residual, which has gone up at least 25% beyond what you envisaged, or PX'ing for a used car on a new PCP agreement, and hoping the used car price bubble doesn't burst...which it will!

There's gonn'a be a lot of unhappy campers out there in the next few years.

by crozier Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:36 pm

imack wrote:AGS gearbox and MGU (motor generator unit) is a set up in an arrangement I've not seen before.
MGU is mounted externally to the gearbox and drives via a PTO (power take off) from the opposite end of the gearbox to the engine.
Supposedly this gives a smoother gear change as the MGU 'torque fills' during gear changes and allegedly gives a gear shift similar to a proper auto box.
Battery pack and inverter are combined in one unit and fits into the spare wheel well and lower boot space.

I'm guessing, but I'm pretty sure this PTO/MGU wouldn't work with a conventional auto box using a torque converter; ditto for a manual box?

by TWSaab Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:39 pm

From a friends recent experience, she got about £3k more than she expected for her PCP Qashqai against a new Kuga plug in on PCP (although it was low mileage). She started talking to dealers about 6 months before the end of her contract allowing for delivery periods. She has had PCP cars for some time and is happy paying a monthly contract to have a new and (hopefully) reliable car every 3 years (although I have warned her about modern Fords). As you say, you really need to be happy to be continuing with PCP agreements.

by Hayashbra Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:54 pm

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/suzuki/vitara/first-drives/suzuki-vitara-15-full-hybrid-sz5-2022-uk-review
Just read this review, and it is not good news. Robotised hear box confirmed . Old revamped motor, looks like a stop gap to full electric. Why no more Booster jets?
Shame, a missed opportunity to improve so many things. Hold on to your good Vitaras!

by crozier Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:46 pm

Hayashbra wrote:https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/suzuki/vitara/first-drives/suzuki-vitara-15-full-hybrid-sz5-2022-uk-review
Just read this review, and it is not good news. Robotised hear box confirmed . Old revamped motor, looks like a stop gap to full electric. Why no more Booster jets?
Shame, a missed opportunity to improve so many things. Hold on to your good Vitaras!

Sadly, I agree. Lots of tempting offers from my local dealer, but there's no way I'm trading down to an ICE powertrain that is 10-year-old technology. Sorry, Suzuki...love you to bits for so many things, but this is just not good enough; either for mild or full hybrid auto.

by TWSaab Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:06 pm

It is a disappointment. I was hoping that at least a facelift (like the S Cross) would come out with a plug in hybrid version. That review seems to suggest the 'new' one is the worst of all worlds. One reason I went for the S Cross for the wife was a chain drive turbo engine and torque converter gearbox.

by imack Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:39 pm

Suzuki are must be one of the only manufacturers to still offer a proper torque converter automatic, they're a dying breed. Most only use DSG's or AMT's.
DSG's have their own problems and quirks, and I've yet to drive a decent AMT from any manufacturer.
I'll reserve judgement on the driving experience
of the strong hybrid Vitara until I've experienced one but the engine/gearbox combination doesn't inspire me. Hopefully it will still have typical Suzuki reliability.

by crozier Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:45 am

imack wrote: ....Most only use DSG's or AMT's.
.....

Kia auto range is all DCT
Toyota/Lexus auto range is all CVT
Mercedes auto range is G-tronic

etc.

The 2035 deadline will restrict ICE powertrain development to what's currently in the inventory, so it's doubtful that auto transmissions will move from where they are now, unless, of course, they go backwards to AMT's

by TWSaab Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:29 am

I did not appreciate the Kia had a DCT gearbox. A friend bought a new Stonic mild hybrid last year and it seemed OK when we went out in it. Just hope it lasts better than the Ford DCT's which have a terrible reputation, but then he has a 7 year warranty.
The Toyota/Lexus CVT's seem quite reliable, I nearly bought an Auris before the S Cross and the friend above had a CVT Yaris for 7 years before the Stonic which was fine. Why on earth did Suzuki go AMT?
I will need to change car soon and I want a plug in hybrid (not ready for EV yet even if I could afford it) so have been looking at the Mitsi Outlander (3-4 years old) which is CVT. They do seem to have some gearbox problems reported but many go on for high mileages.

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