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Post by JOHNWALES on Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:00 pm

How Many Vitara owners use premium fuels ? I occasionally treat my motor to this more expensive diesel.

The adverts that appear on t.v. are very misleading, and possibly even illegal. They claim that using this grade of fuel could give you up to an extra 21 miles per tank full. The extra cost for filling a Vitara tank using premium fuel would amount to around £3.50, somewhat more than the savings for getting an extra 21 miles.

Personally I see no advantage in using this fuel for the purpose of saving money. I recently bought 30 litres of Gulf Premium diesel, and it has made no difference whatsoever to the consumption figures, which I monitor very carefully. There may be hidden advantages that result in a cleaner engine; but I honestly feel you are better off with standard fuel purchased from one of the main suppliers.

Whilst on the subject of fuel, a tanker driver once told me never to use fuel pumps whilst a tanker is making a delivery. The incoming fuel disturbs all the muck on the bottom of the tank, and off loads some of it in to your car !!!

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Post by bigcar1979 on Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:34 pm

I have to say i dont, but my Vitara is only 3 weeks old. lol

however, i did find that in my old car (Suzuki Wagon R) premium fuels seemed to give it a bit more grunt but no increase in MPG or miles per tank. and that supermarket fuels the car felt like it had less power.
so i usually stick to Shell / BP garages if i can.
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Post by Gar Green on Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:57 pm

I did in my RS Swift Sport as they were mapped to run on 98. Since then Iv just used 95 in the newer AZG sport and the booster,if I was driving something with a bit of power or a highly strung engine I would most likely consider it.
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Post by HILLCLIMBER on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:06 pm

I tried premium fuel a few times in my previous Vitara (2009 DDIS) with no noticeable difference at all, however ten years or so ago I was travelling from North Devon to Chester on a fairly frequent basis with a Rover 216 GTI (Honda 1.6 petrol) and tried BP Premium and noticed a marked improvement in power, driveability and mpg.

Use fuel from the main well known companies and you will not go far wrong, don`t start me on supermarket fuel, I can give chapter and verse on that from customers and personal experience.

Good advice re not filling up when the tanker is delivering, certainly does stir up any deposits that may be lurking at the bottom of the tanks.

John, what mpg are you getting, my Vitara is only five weeks old and still running in with only 850 miles completed and only two tanks used as yet,(Texaco) dash display shows 58mpg, actual ful tank to full tank at the same pump shows 52 mpg, mine is an allgrip manual.
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Post by JOHNWALES on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:56 pm

Hi Hillclimber, my 65 plate Vitara has now covered 18,500. I never race through the gears and rarely use the brakes when slowing down, preferring to cruise to a halt. As well as saving fuel this tends to protect the back of the car. My dash display hovers in the 67 and 68 m.p.g. with the rev counter usually running at 1800 to 1900 r.p.m. I did several manual checks when I first had the car, and these suggested that my display was quite accurate.
However, as well as the in built Bosch G.P.S. I separately use a Tom Tom and it is interesting to note that the Vitara speedometer indicates the car is going about 8 % faster than that displayed on the Tom Tom. I know for a fact the Tom Tom is spot on, as it matches the speed indicated on the roadside speed indicators. This 8 % difference must also effect the fuel consumption guage, which I calculate would knock 4.m.p.g. off a display of 50 m.p.g. AM I RIGHT, OR AM I WRONG ??????
Going back to fuels Hillclimber, we all know that BP, Esso, Shell and Texaco are quality fuels; and that unbranded fuels sold at supermarkets are best avoided; but can you or any one else give a rating for the following fuels please....... Gulf, Murco, Oil 4 Wales . THanks.....

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Post by Admin on Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:54 am

I every now and then run a tank of super unleaded in the Vitara but never seen any performance or mpg gains

We only have one garage in Bridgnorth which is a Esso/ Tesco express with 95ron regular and 97ron super unleaded
The Tesco supermarkets in the 3 surrounding towns however have 95ron regular and 99ron unleaded
I also run Suzukivanvan.co.uk for the 125/200 Suzuki vanvan and a tank of Tesco 99ron on a 125 makes a vast improvement against other 125 vanvan owners I have not told about the 99ron fuel ;-)

Another thing I noticed while I Sestriere in Italy then other high altitude fuel stations was that they only sold super unleaded but no regular, there must be a reason for this?

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Post by HILLCLIMBER on Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:18 am

JOHNWALES wrote:Hi Hillclimber,   my 65 plate Vitara has now covered 18,500.    I never race through the gears and rarely use the brakes when slowing down,  preferring to cruise to a halt.  As well as saving fuel this tends to protect the back of the car.  My dash display hovers in the 67 and 68 m.p.g. with the rev counter usually running at 1800 to 1900 r.p.m.      I did several manual checks when I first had the car,  and these suggested that my display was quite accurate.
However,  as well as the in built Bosch G.P.S. I separately use a Tom Tom and it is interesting to note that the Vitara speedometer indicates the car is going about 8 % faster than that displayed on the Tom Tom.   I know for a fact the Tom Tom is spot on,  as it matches the speed indicated on the roadside speed indicators.   This 8 % difference must also effect the fuel consumption guage,   which I calculate would knock 4.m.p.g. off a display of 50 m.p.g.   AM I RIGHT,  OR AM I WRONG  ??????
Going back to fuels Hillclimber,  we all know that BP, Esso, Shell and Texaco are quality fuels;  and that unbranded fuels sold at supermarkets are best avoided;   but can you or any one else give a rating for the following fuels please.......    Gulf,  Murco,  Oil 4 Wales .    THanks.....

As far as I know Gulf is still a mainstream supplier but not certain, the smaller companies often belong to a buying group using the Rotterdam spot market so the retailers end up with what they are given at that time, this used to be the way as far as I`m aware.

Your observations re Tom Tom would tie in with my findings, I have a Tom Tom unit so will do a comparison next week, I don`t think that the Vitara Bosch unit gives a speed readout or at least I`ve not found it, I also have used Co Pilot on my tablet and that is a fantastic system, free download for Android and very cheap to do full upgrade, I`m very pleased with it.

I got fed up with Tom Tom after an upgrade meant the scale of the map was constantly altering with speed, no matter what I did I could not get back to the previous setup,before that I had 100% faith in the programme.
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Post by Admin on Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:40 am

JOHNWALES wrote:....... the Vitara speedometer indicates the car is going about 8 % faster than that displayed on the Tom Tom

A majority of speedo's are out by up to 10%, this is to accommodate for various tyre pressures / tyre wear etc that can all affect the Speedo reading by the time it has travelled from the wheels/transmission/cable/clock ,later electronic pick up speedos are or can be more accurate but still have an element of optimistic readings , not sure if they are still fitted or they have an electronic device but Police traffic cars often had a calibrated speedo that was 100%

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Post by plunet on Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:47 am

JOHNWALES wrote:However,  as well as the in built Bosch G.P.S. I separately use a Tom Tom and it is interesting to note that the Vitara speedometer indicates the car is going about 8 % faster than that displayed on the Tom Tom.   I know for a fact the Tom Tom is spot on,  as it matches the speed indicated on the roadside speed indicators.   This 8 % difference must also effect the fuel consumption guage,   which I calculate would knock 4.m.p.g. off a display of 50 m.p.g.   AM I RIGHT,  OR AM I WRONG  ??????

From my experience it's fairly standard practice for vehicle speedometers to overread by 5-10%, this seems to be an acknowledged manufacturing tolerance and gives the driver a little safely margin against the absolute speed limit.

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Post by JOHNWALES on Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:18 am

I always set my speed limit against my Tom Tom read out. Thanks to you all for your interesting feed back. I think I will restrict my fuel purchases to B P , Shell, Esso and Texaco.

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Post by Admin on Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:24 am

The one joy of using a satnav is in average speed area's you can usually sail past all the others sticking to their speedometer readings lol!

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Post by Badfx on Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:38 pm

About 20 year's ago I used to do petrol and diesel delivery's to fuel station forecourts. This was in and around the Leeds area. I worked for a small privately owned firm and most of my delivery's were to independently owned Fuel Stations. I collected the petrol and diesel from a place in Leeds and so did lots of others includine Shell, Esso and some supermarket tankers. The only ones that owned there own fuel depot close by was Jet.
I can't imagine anything has changed much but certainly then most Fuel stations were selling the same stuff just at different prices.

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Post by JOHNWALES on Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:03 pm

I have heard of that one before Badfx; and the same story has been passed on to me by the Captain of a BP tanker.

But another source claimed that B P, Esso and Shell tankers once filled with fuel moved on to another tank and took on board additives to enhance their product. Is it possible that premium fuels such as BP ultimate are doctored in the same way ??

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Post by Badfx on Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:57 am

I couldn't definitely say if the big providers added anything. I certainly never seen it happen, they would be in the queue to fill up and I don't recall them moving on to somewhere else within the fuel depot to add anything. There was no special facility that I was aware of and all that was available on the gantry was 4 star, unleaded and diesel. That's not to say they didn't add something somehow though. I just doubt it.
On the odd occasion I had to go to Grimsby to collect from a depot owned by Texaco and that again would be full of all different branded tankers all collecting the same fuel.

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Post by JOHNWALES on Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:51 am

A really interesting topic this; and one that consumers should have the right to get answers !
I am going to google it and see if there is more information available.

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Post by Badfx on Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:23 pm

There are a lot more different grades of fuel available at the pumps now compared to 20 years ago so it's possible all the big suppliers have there own collection points now. When I was delivering it was 4 star, unleaded or Diesel and that was it.
I don't recall any of the ig names claiming to have better fuel than others but they did claim to do stuff like actively cleans your engine. Which maybe it dI'd but that's not to say the small independent's fuel didn't do the same thing they just didn't have TV adverts telling you it did.
I only did it for about a year and some of the things I seen I couldn't put in print.
I worked for a small independent company that was on the verge of bankruptcy (I didn't know until I was made redundant).
The wagon's were terrible and not serviced too well. One day as I was pumping diesel on a forecourt all the clutch set on fire. Now I had a haz chemical licence which I had to go on a course to get. They teach you what to do in the event of an emergency and how to contain and protect the immediate environment.
What I did was hit the emergency stop button and legged it shouting "run away". I was closely followed by the guy working there who had just run and not bothered shutting down the pumps. So there was a couple of fellas still filling up there cars while a petrol tanker has flames licking up from the engine.
Haha luckiy the fire went out of its own accord. I rang my boss and he said "can you drive it to the mechanics as it costs a fortune for recovery. I was still carrying petrol at the time. Anyway I did and got there without incident. In hindsight and now I'm older I wouldn't have gone anywhere near that wagon until it had been deemed safe never mind driven it through the centre of Leeds.

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Post by JOHNWALES on Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:25 pm

Mixed feelings on google. Where as the scientists, bio chemists, and government departments, clearly state that there are certain standards in Europe which ensure supermarket fuels are not inferior, no one has actually clarified that their fuel is from the same source as branded names. NO one has clarified that additives are added at any stage in the refuelling process, and you would think that the big boys would have publicly pointed out this process.

Jack the lad, and more than 50 % of contributors maintain they have experienced incidents that confirm supermarket fuel is below the standards of branded fuel.

But in the absence of any effort from BP, Shell, Esso and Texaco to show us where their superior fuel gains its prestige position, I think the most reliable information has come from Badfx who through his involvement in the industry, clearly is best positioned to defend the roll of supermarket fuel.

My advice is to mix your purchases, alternating between supermarket, branded and super fuels, bearing in mind that a 20 litre top up of a tank already holding 25 litres of another type of fuel will not have much effect on your performance. If you find adverse performance from any type of fuel, just eliminate it from your shopping list.

I understand that fuel tanks should be relined every ten to 15 years; and it may be an operation that is carried out by the book more frequently by supermarkets than it is by smaller concerns. The accumulation of debris, water and persistent running low on supplies will be the biggest influence on fuel quality.

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Post by Admin on Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:06 pm

All interesting reading but if you take into account that Suzuki's are sold worldwide and found in some of the remotest places where fuel can be of the lowest grade
I remember buying some fuel out of someone's watering can in Cuba as the local gas station had run out for the last 48hrs, i honestly thought we would have problems as it wasnt the clearest of fuels as he poured it in yet the rental Vitara never missed a beat

We had sat waiting at this fuel station for nearly an hour thinking they were closed for lunch when the guy in the Trooper said he had been there since 8am waiting for the fuel station to have a delivery of fuel and it could well be tomorrow before it arrives?

PREMIUM FUELS Wp_20116

My camping stove runs on Unleaded fuel and even using Super Unleaded with ultimate cleaning abilities it tends to black up on the burner, a well known trick to clean the stove is to use Redex added to the Petrol, you would not believe how clean the burner goes with Redex, I know you cannot see inside an engine but if you saw the Redex treated burner you would know this must certainly clean inside your engine so perhaps buy regular unleaded and add a bottle of Redex to a tank of fuel, at least you know for sure the additives are in your tank?

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Post by JOHNWALES on Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:44 pm

Good advice Karl.........

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Post by theforestdweller on Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:02 pm

I've read this thread with interest, and it offers the same variety of opinions as other forums have done over the years. I've run all my new vehicles on Supermarket fuel, and will continue to do so. I've never had a problem nor seen the point in trying to squeeze an extra bhp or two or maybe better mpg by the odd mile or so out of a tank of fuel. If the Supermarket stuff was as bad as people say, they would have gone out of business years ago. Cheap and Cheerful - that's me!
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Post by plunet on Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:43 pm

I used to work in petrol retail - a few years ago now - the tanker drivers told me they were collecting fuel from the same tanks at Buncefield whatever brand of tanker they were driving. Whether it's true or not I can't say and things nl might have changed, but I suspect it's still all the same.

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Post by JOHNWALES on Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:10 pm

Is it possible that the tanks could be sub divided into various grades and brands, and the controller being responsible for distribution. Seems a bit hit or miss to me; but surely if the same fuel goes out to all, the Trading Standards would be involved.

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Post by graham04 on Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:32 pm

Having worked around refineries for quite some time, I have noticed that Asda and Morrisons tankers come out of the Murco refinery, and Tesco fuel appears to be from Esso. I suspect that dodgy fuel from the third world is a thing of the past.

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Post by Tiara5 on Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:02 pm

Have a look at Honest John, there are several items regarding this.
Not sure about diesel, which is low sulphur nowadays, but the better grade petrol is a higher RON rating.
We were told with our new 06 Golf 5 to use the better stuff, but thought better! At 50K miles needed a new cylinder head because the valve guides on 2 & 3 had worn out. Needles to say VW wouldnt pay, so we had to fork out £2.5k at an indy who claimed there were lots failing.
HJ recommends Shell V-Power nitro plus and it is 99RON.
Diesel was V-Power or BP Ultimate.
In my 70's Triumph, I add Millers VSPE to ordinary 95RON supermarket fuel, which has the effect of increasing the octane but also stops the effects of the ethanol, which rots everything, and as well as preventing fuel aging. Seems to work so far!
We also have a lawn tractor, with a Honda 400 commercial low compression engine, which should run on anything, and over 3 months last winter the fuel went off, wouldnt start. Simple drain and refill with fresh fuel cured it. Now put Millers in that and no more problems.
Not sure if you could put such an additive in a vehicle with a catalyst though.
Apart from lead, which we are all aware of, there were other additives, however modern engines are supposedly designed with suitable materials to prevent such wear and also prevent the effects of ethalene!
The FHBVC recommend Millers and a couple of other additives, most dont work!

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Post by Tiara5 on Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:29 pm

Meant to add, but got called - -
We generally use the ordinary 95RON supermarket stuff in our 1.6 petrol, but have noticed a definate slight hesitancy just lately, almost missing on acceleration.
We average a tad short of 51mpg on the dash, 47.5mpg on tank fillup calculation.
Just got back from France on an empty tank and needed fuel so called in tesco at Portsmouth and mistakenly put Momentum in which is also 99RON.
We are sure that the car drove more smoothly and with no hesitation along the A34 and M40 etc. Will have to see if the tankful mpg improves, but the dash readout was the same!
Of course this is only a subjective 200 mile run so far and may have been the need to get home!

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